Muon vs Shampoo optimizer debate reignites as researcher calls for spicy takes
_arohan_ · x · 2026-11-13
AI research blogger Arohan posted that "today is the day we need another Muon vs Shampoo discussion to cleanse the timeline," asking the community for takes that are "spicy (but not mean)."
Muon and Shampoo are the two second-order/preconditioned optimizer approaches drawing the most attention in large-model training, and which one suits frontier training remains a live research debate. The post itself is a discussion prompt; the real value lies in the optimizer debate it kicks off.
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